I'm really curious to know why this is only happening on Asus mobos. Asus typically uses the best VRMs and has the more advanced Vcore controls compared to MSI, Gigabyte and Asrock.
And my wishes look like they will come true, when Gamer's Nexus is getting both the fried CPU and fried Asus Mobo, when AMD and Asus wanted to do their own tests on it.
ASUS jacks up voltage when you are using AI OC or some other of their BIOS features. Which is probably why this Voltage control loophole causing the issue is my best guess. Which is why best option for most tweak centric users is to reduce the stock voltage by some points and test for stability, if they are lucky they could achieve more if the Silicon lottery is won.
And in case one does not know, XMP = Higher VCCIO / VCCSA voltage. Which is why Intel voids warranty (on paper), constantly running on higher voltage is not good. AMD also does the same EXPO for warranty but I do not know about voltage characteristics of Zen 4 IMC behavior and voltage points, it should be similar.
And in this case I think MSI is adding extra barriers on BIOS side to lockdown X3D voltage loopholes. AMD should have disabled every single bit and locked down registers for these processors as they run high voltage already vs Zen 4.
I can confirm going back to at least the B360/Z370, Asus boards run aggressive voltages even without XMP or any OC on non-K CPU's to keep boost clocks high. It's actually counter-productive as it increases temperatures, which reduces boost duration. In my last PC, an Asus Strix ITX backbone, I spent days after building it trying to determine why load temps were regularly 90c with adequate cooling\airflow, determined a -0.125v offset to prevent running 1.4-1.5v under boost resolved the issue and overall performance was better not to mention 70-75c peak temps.
X3D chips are trash lol. This is beautiful karma after AMD paid a bunch of shills to push out the "RTX 4090 exploding" narrative, which in the end was proven to be user error and magically there are no more "people" reporting of such an issue anymore.
12VHPWR is having issues. Intel ATX3.0 Power standard revises it with deeper 4 Sense Pins. RTX4090 does blow up but 3090Ti does not because the latter does not use sense pins. Cablemod adapter with passive cooling ensures it stays fit AND has a good bend meawhile 8-pin can handle 300W. AMD's old R9 295X2 is reviewed here on Anandtech and it goes to 500W on 2x 8Pins. Yea you can search before you can go on a rage. Second is Nvidia hamfisted that garbage power connector with cheap junk connectors go to Igor's lab and learn.
The problem is 2 fold on X3D, AMD did not properly lock down the chip at CPU level but who would be stupid to Overclock on the X3D with Voltage when these run at 1.4v the stock Zen 4 runs at 1.2v and AMD locked it for a reason. ASUS let their BIOS push overvoltage its the major issue here. MSI is adding extra steps.
Next up a 7800X3D destroys Intel "gaming king" 13900KS and also stays super cool and consumes less than 1/2 power. Sure if you want MT, 13900K wins BUT a 7950X destroys that with 100-150W less power and easy to cool on Air despite having Temperature based scaling on Zen 4 upto 94C. Finally LGA1700 is EOL, RPL-R will save it a bit by adding boost and DLVR but Zen 5 ? Buy LGA1800, also the Socket is a failure because it bends the CPU and Mobo (again mentioned here on Anandtech as well).
RTX is all about DLSS - using Temporal cancer AA with Sharpening pass. Imagine buying a $1000 GPU and running 1440P with an upscaled 720P image. Or 540P for 1080P DLSS or a 1080P for a 4K DLSS. Add Frame Generation interpolation which are not even real frames. One last is RTX4070 gets smoked to crisp bacon by 6950XT and that has more in everything from performance to VRAM. RT is not going to save the day as it needs DLOSS. Or it needs VRAM Or it needs full Metro Exodus type RT Enhanced Edition which is still not light years vs Gold Edition.
Assumed it was voltage controls on the motherboard side because of der8auer nuking an X3D chip on a trip he took just by increasing the voltage and turning it on. There's definitely some more work to be done on AMD's side if they're releasing products this sensitive but without completely locked down firmware.
Some times you need to protect people from themselves. There's a good reason why neither AMD not Intel honor warranty replacement for overclocked/over-volted CPUs. AMD locked the CPUs to try and prevent damage but some folks chose to circumvent the lock and paid the price.
Unfortunately these are regular people simply enabling AMD's version of XMP, EXPO, without realizing exactly what it does (and that it technically voids the warranty.)
"There is little concrete information about where the issue lies."
Indeed, but I heard speculation that the temperature sensors are burning out at high voltage, which then lets the chips fry since they rely on the temp sensor to run at boost speeds.
Asus has some weird, customized power control schemes, so I'm not surprised they are the first to trip this issue.
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Threska - Monday, April 24, 2023 - link
Well there's a reason it's the leading-edge. Sometime people get cut. Expensive cuts.meacupla - Monday, April 24, 2023 - link
I'm really curious to know why this is only happening on Asus mobos.Asus typically uses the best VRMs and has the more advanced Vcore controls compared to MSI, Gigabyte and Asrock.
meacupla - Monday, April 24, 2023 - link
And my wishes look like they will come true, when Gamer's Nexus is getting both the fried CPU and fried Asus Mobo, when AMD and Asus wanted to do their own tests on it.Oxford Guy - Monday, April 24, 2023 - link
The top-tier ASUS FX-era board (Crosshair Formula Z) was known for under-reporting the amount of voltage it was putting into the CPU.Silver5urfer - Monday, April 24, 2023 - link
ASUS jacks up voltage when you are using AI OC or some other of their BIOS features. Which is probably why this Voltage control loophole causing the issue is my best guess. Which is why best option for most tweak centric users is to reduce the stock voltage by some points and test for stability, if they are lucky they could achieve more if the Silicon lottery is won.And in case one does not know, XMP = Higher VCCIO / VCCSA voltage. Which is why Intel voids warranty (on paper), constantly running on higher voltage is not good. AMD also does the same EXPO for warranty but I do not know about voltage characteristics of Zen 4 IMC behavior and voltage points, it should be similar.
And in this case I think MSI is adding extra barriers on BIOS side to lockdown X3D voltage loopholes. AMD should have disabled every single bit and locked down registers for these processors as they run high voltage already vs Zen 4.
Oxford Guy - Monday, April 24, 2023 - link
‘ AMD should have disabled every single bit and locked down registers for these processors as they run high voltage already vs Zen 4’I recently read that the new 3D RAM parts have significantly lower stock voltage, mainly due to lower clocking.
Samus - Wednesday, April 26, 2023 - link
I can confirm going back to at least the B360/Z370, Asus boards run aggressive voltages even without XMP or any OC on non-K CPU's to keep boost clocks high. It's actually counter-productive as it increases temperatures, which reduces boost duration. In my last PC, an Asus Strix ITX backbone, I spent days after building it trying to determine why load temps were regularly 90c with adequate cooling\airflow, determined a -0.125v offset to prevent running 1.4-1.5v under boost resolved the issue and overall performance was better not to mention 70-75c peak temps.dwade123 - Monday, April 24, 2023 - link
X3D chips are trash lol. This is beautiful karma after AMD paid a bunch of shills to push out the "RTX 4090 exploding" narrative, which in the end was proven to be user error and magically there are no more "people" reporting of such an issue anymore.Silver5urfer - Monday, April 24, 2023 - link
12VHPWR is having issues. Intel ATX3.0 Power standard revises it with deeper 4 Sense Pins. RTX4090 does blow up but 3090Ti does not because the latter does not use sense pins. Cablemod adapter with passive cooling ensures it stays fit AND has a good bend meawhile 8-pin can handle 300W. AMD's old R9 295X2 is reviewed here on Anandtech and it goes to 500W on 2x 8Pins. Yea you can search before you can go on a rage. Second is Nvidia hamfisted that garbage power connector with cheap junk connectors go to Igor's lab and learn.The problem is 2 fold on X3D, AMD did not properly lock down the chip at CPU level but who would be stupid to Overclock on the X3D with Voltage when these run at 1.4v the stock Zen 4 runs at 1.2v and AMD locked it for a reason. ASUS let their BIOS push overvoltage its the major issue here. MSI is adding extra steps.
Next up a 7800X3D destroys Intel "gaming king" 13900KS and also stays super cool and consumes less than 1/2 power. Sure if you want MT, 13900K wins BUT a 7950X destroys that with 100-150W less power and easy to cool on Air despite having Temperature based scaling on Zen 4 upto 94C. Finally LGA1700 is EOL, RPL-R will save it a bit by adding boost and DLVR but Zen 5 ? Buy LGA1800, also the Socket is a failure because it bends the CPU and Mobo (again mentioned here on Anandtech as well).
RTX is all about DLSS - using Temporal cancer AA with Sharpening pass. Imagine buying a $1000 GPU and running 1440P with an upscaled 720P image. Or 540P for 1080P DLSS or a 1080P for a 4K DLSS. Add Frame Generation interpolation which are not even real frames. One last is RTX4070 gets smoked to crisp bacon by 6950XT and that has more in everything from performance to VRAM. RT is not going to save the day as it needs DLOSS. Or it needs VRAM Or it needs full Metro Exodus type RT Enhanced Edition which is still not light years vs Gold Edition.
thestryker - Monday, April 24, 2023 - link
Assumed it was voltage controls on the motherboard side because of der8auer nuking an X3D chip on a trip he took just by increasing the voltage and turning it on. There's definitely some more work to be done on AMD's side if they're releasing products this sensitive but without completely locked down firmware.Techie2 - Monday, April 24, 2023 - link
Some times you need to protect people from themselves. There's a good reason why neither AMD not Intel honor warranty replacement for overclocked/over-volted CPUs. AMD locked the CPUs to try and prevent damage but some folks chose to circumvent the lock and paid the price.Samus - Wednesday, April 26, 2023 - link
Unfortunately these are regular people simply enabling AMD's version of XMP, EXPO, without realizing exactly what it does (and that it technically voids the warranty.)boozed - Tuesday, April 25, 2023 - link
Wait, is this affecting ASUS or MSI boards?meacupla - Tuesday, April 25, 2023 - link
All the reports are from Asus boards when enabling XMP.MSI is just preemptively addressing the issue so they don't have to deal with it.
brucethemoose - Tuesday, April 25, 2023 - link
"There is little concrete information about where the issue lies."Indeed, but I heard speculation that the temperature sensors are burning out at high voltage, which then lets the chips fry since they rely on the temp sensor to run at boost speeds.
Asus has some weird, customized power control schemes, so I'm not surprised they are the first to trip this issue.