The most unfortunate part is the reddit user sending the processor to GN as if Steve at GN is like some HW guru lol....Plus that dude was like 12VHPWR is the User error you are holding it wrong and shamed Igor's lab about his findings on the NTK vs Astron connectors. FF to 2023 CableMod finally releases the 90 degree and 180 degree Adapters with Astron Tulip design and Intel ATX 3.0 specification also does the same along with Sense Pin depth revision. Cements how bad his HW analysis was, same for the LGA1700 bendgate disaster, he was too late (right in time for Derbaur's Thermalgrizzly Contact frame campaign, btw Thermalright frame is better for those who are into that contact frame DIY as Thermalgrizzly Derbaur's is having a risk of ruining the Mobo PCB) by that time even Anandtech reported, Igor's Lab reported and so many users also reported.
The reason I bought this up is. AMD needs to know what happened to the processor and issue a proper statement. More over all those Toms Hardware MSI findings where are those processor photos and did the user sent them to AMD or someone else ? And news flash Derbaur is claiming his 7900X has the same problem but he is rather showing how his CPU is at a slanted angle for 5 seconds that's it. No information on the processor, nothing. Except ofc it is de-lidded.
Disclaimer is I do not even own any AMD part, I skipped Zen 3 because it rightfully had IODie instability once you touch DRAM OC past 3200MHz and the USB drop outs no AGESA could fix them. My guess is it's due to the 3 variable system on the Uclock, Memclock, Fclock.. Zen 4 fixed all of them by decoupling that links to 2 variables now.
Finally back to the Zen 4 X3D, ASUS mysteriously taking it down in a quick manner was also really weird so was MSI, like did they happen to know how the Voltage offset register on X3D processors was exposed just by looking at the Reddit CPU in question ? Shame these things a lot of time to analyze and give some response which is proper. Also the whole XMP and EXPO I was mentioning other day, they OC the Voltage thats why the "warranty is void" on paper if you know what I'm talking about. So on Intel XMP = higher VCCIO/VCCSA and on AMD it's SoC voltage I guess. Lack of AMD documentation on the processor like Intel datasheet is also a small annoyance tbh to understand about each variable in the BIOS selection for these advanced high tech processors nowadays.
People can send their CPUs, broken or not, to whomever they feel like. GN, for their part, have already helped in diagnosing several problems with HW so far. So, it's not like they're new to this sort of thing -- although I doubt that they have the tools necessary to root-cause this problem.
Honestly, this person is well known for going on weird and random, wall of text, rants that don't really make a whole lot of sense. It's best to just ignore everything they say.
@Samus "GN sensationalizes everything. We need engineering analysis not drama." You CLEARLY didn't watch the video about this issue from derBauer, where he EXPLICITLY mentions that GN has sent the sample that he received to a failure analysis lab.
I wonder if anyone has reached out to see if they can be helped. Anyone going off like this, with these types of posts, certainly when it is consistent, probably needs help. Just look at all the emotion packed into that post - taking general technical issues personally, making claims about the efficacy of the work done by a very well-respected shop, etc. People who react this way ought to get kindness and understanding, but they end up either being ignored, or argued with in an very unhealthy way.
I can see this both ways. Sending to GN and having a third party failure analysis lab examine it without any manufacturer intervention eliminates vested interests and protect consumers from companies claiming it was user error. The other side to this is that AMD are far better placed to conduct and interpret such an analysis but, amusingly, they might prefer it going to GN.
Why? Because if this really is a more widespread problem, they're going to get enough samples to figure out what needs defuckulation. And, if GN really do stay entirely objective, and this turns out to not be AMD's fault, it helps stop people accusing AMD of denying responsibility.
AMD might be in a stick situation. In my country, I would expect consumer law to say that XMP, etc is an advertised feature, that benchmarks are conducted with it on and that it's AMD's responsibility to ensure motherboard partners have the correct spec to not fry the chip. I'm not sure a "warranty void" warning holds up when you're selling the product based on those features being enabled. It's like saying a car can go 150mph but your warranty is void if you go above 70mph, and then advertising it as a suitable track car.
If I spent $600 on a motherboard and $450 on a chip to have it burn out cause I enabled expo f*ck AMD. I'd MUCH rather send it to GN for it's full value than AMD hoping they don't come back weeks later to say "tough shit, you enabled expo and we aren't warrantying it." Especially when AMD has MUCH more to gain from hiding the true cause if they discover it was their f*ckup.
Your attempt to discredit Gamers Nexus just makes you look like an AMD apologist that doesn't want the body cam footage released after a police shooting. I know if I'd bought this overpriced line of CPUs I'd be FAR more interested in independent testing than AMD's when they'd benefit FAR more from hiding any failures than GN getting a few more views.
GN is taking a HUGE risk pissing off AMD by buying this chip in the search of truth and exactly why they're respected by the community.
What risk are they taking ? Like how they ate money from Nvidia on giving out how 12VHPWR Is exclusively user error, like Nvdia PR was only given to them not to all because Nvidia liked GN way and how that way they could not be stressed to give an official PR statements low visibility and less money involved and less accountability. Their adapters and solution was garbage. Fact of Intel 3.0 ATX revision cements it.
AMD's QC botch up or not this situation does not make GN any saint or such. Esp the fact he ignored the LGA1700 socket failure of bending for months only to come out after the Thermalgrizzly's Contact Frame was out.
"Your attempt to discredit Gamers Nexus just makes you look like an AMD apologist that doesn't want the body cam footage released after a police shooting."
Except that's a poor comparison. After whining about accountability and getting bodycams put on cops all over the place, deepening the taxpayer burden, the NAACP complained bodycams were an invasion of privacy when the overwhelming majority of footage vindicated police.
In this scenario, that would put AMD in the victim category and the consumer being the entity causing the infraction.
Also, Gamer's Nexus has no risk in this. That's just a silly statement to make. A person takes more risk crossing the street on a daily basis than Gamer's Nexus risks in this affair.
"I skipped Zen 3 because it rightfully had IODie instability once you touch DRAM OC past 3200MHz and the USB drop outs no AGESA could fix them. My guess is it's due to the 3 variable system on the Uclock, Memclock, Fclock.. Zen 4 fixed all of them by decoupling that links to 2 variables now."
Could be a couple of years since i last visited Anandtech. FF to 2023 and the "Silver FUDozer" still going strong, knowing it all.
Dude,
My 5700X rig ticks @ DDR4-4000 1:1 , for months now , with no issues whatsoever, especially at the USB. And i would know, since -amongst other- i use USB BT devices, namely a mouse and a headset.
Anandtech article reported the USB failures, I go to OCN and see it always a thing for this reason alone OCN has WHEA Supressor made. Why would I have to lie about some X corporation and I do not care about your IMC ratio and it's irrelevant for an anecdotal take. As I've seen enough of these user complaints on OCN. Then the Videocardz comments for some of the users mentioning this, and a ton of reports on Reddit on brand new X570 series and other forums where I have knowns have reported issues on their own machines. The Zen 3 is a failure in terms of stability and UASP does not exist on that platform still. I did my research for my purchase as I do not want to fiddle around the BIOS with unknown non documented values for variables.
And what I mentioned is accurate, Zen 4 does not have 3 links now. It's only 2 that IODie link is removed as a part of the change its only DRAM+ IMC and no FClock link anymore. If you do not know jacks just move on.
To add - The last page of this article comment has one user mentioning the USB failures on Zen 3 platform. It's garbage. End of story. AMD users should get Zen 4 if they want stability or wait for Zen 5, as Intel is garbage in LGA1700 bendgate fiasco and untameable heat.
Reddit posts are being deleted to "cover this up"? The same reddit where the hardware and amd subreddit frontpages are completely filled with this drama? The same reddit that is completely blowing this up with no actual new information and rephrasing speculation as "Confirmed Cause"? That reddit?
And that's why you shouldn't ever use Reddit to post or obtain information. The ability for Reddit moderators to silently delete certain posts and therefore completely change the context of threads to support their opinions makes the site useless for gauging public sentiment. You can post something there, and then by silently deleting a select few posts above yours, the moderators can make it look like you support the exact opposite, and you can do nothing about it.
My biggest concern is that apparently XMP and other similar tech from AMD that is advertised by memory vendors and motherboard manufacturers and even Intel/AMD themselves is a "warranty void" use case. I had never heard this before, nor did I hear anything about it being considered overclocking. That's news to me lol
That's been the case for generations of memory. Anything that goes beyond JEDEC spec is overclocking.
I agree that it's bullshit for the industry to advertise higher speeds and build supporting technology (XMP, EXPO) while disclaiming any responsibility though.
Of course they can. If they say that certain usage avoid varranty, it does so... That is why there are usage instructions. If someone use car to dive to the lake... The warranty does not cover that. OC is always a risk customer takes, that does remove varranty. Normally it is not a big risk, but if something happens... well no help from company.
2 years ago I decided it was time to go AMD for my gaming rig. I bought a 5800X and an X570 Motherboard and was excited to take the plunge! That excitement turned to despair quickly. The problem: I'd be running Windows 10 or 11 and "click" my computer would instantly be at BIOS startup. As a troubleshooter, I was intrigued to find the cause for weeks. Desperately trying to find the cause of this I replaced my system RAM, PSU, and even motherboard. Because each manufacturer was convinced it was their device that was causing this problem! Nothing fixed it. I'm be browsing, gaming, anything and "click" BIOS startup. This went on for months because of my stubbornness and "I can't fix this ego". ALong with hardware I tried everything I possibly could in Windows 10 &11 to try and figure out the cause. Error logs, you name it. But nothing.
Months pass and AMD released a bulletin stating "We are aware of a USB issue with the X570 series M/B." "We are now trying to recreate and isolate the problem and eventually issue a bios fix." Weeks later the fix came and the problem stopped.
But, after all the (wasted) time I personally spent with OEMs, on the phone with AMD, and in Windows, I had had enough. I parted out my M/B and CPU and went with INTEL Alder Lake and I went back to normal expectations. Now this debacle has made it past AMD's Q/A. Not good. No excuse.
experienced the same thing and other things, causing me to spend $ and time troubleshooting, just went back to intel, dont really care at this point how much better AMD is, they don't understand QA and don't do it, apparently. On raptor lake now, and its rock solid.
I was quite surprised in the past with dramatic increase of VSoC related to faster XMP/EXPO profiles from the default 1.09V (4800MHz 38-38-38-80) to 1.20-1.30V (for 5200-6000 MHz) on my Asus B650E-F. Also related 50% idle power draw increase was high. I hope that the new AGESA changes will offer better tuned gradual SoC voltage steps required for higher memory frequencies and also some power management or dynamic VSoC decrease for idle mode.
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Silver5urfer - Tuesday, April 25, 2023 - link
The most unfortunate part is the reddit user sending the processor to GN as if Steve at GN is like some HW guru lol....Plus that dude was like 12VHPWR is the User error you are holding it wrong and shamed Igor's lab about his findings on the NTK vs Astron connectors. FF to 2023 CableMod finally releases the 90 degree and 180 degree Adapters with Astron Tulip design and Intel ATX 3.0 specification also does the same along with Sense Pin depth revision. Cements how bad his HW analysis was, same for the LGA1700 bendgate disaster, he was too late (right in time for Derbaur's Thermalgrizzly Contact frame campaign, btw Thermalright frame is better for those who are into that contact frame DIY as Thermalgrizzly Derbaur's is having a risk of ruining the Mobo PCB) by that time even Anandtech reported, Igor's Lab reported and so many users also reported.The reason I bought this up is. AMD needs to know what happened to the processor and issue a proper statement. More over all those Toms Hardware MSI findings where are those processor photos and did the user sent them to AMD or someone else ? And news flash Derbaur is claiming his 7900X has the same problem but he is rather showing how his CPU is at a slanted angle for 5 seconds that's it. No information on the processor, nothing. Except ofc it is de-lidded.
Disclaimer is I do not even own any AMD part, I skipped Zen 3 because it rightfully had IODie instability once you touch DRAM OC past 3200MHz and the USB drop outs no AGESA could fix them. My guess is it's due to the 3 variable system on the Uclock, Memclock, Fclock.. Zen 4 fixed all of them by decoupling that links to 2 variables now.
Finally back to the Zen 4 X3D, ASUS mysteriously taking it down in a quick manner was also really weird so was MSI, like did they happen to know how the Voltage offset register on X3D processors was exposed just by looking at the Reddit CPU in question ? Shame these things a lot of time to analyze and give some response which is proper. Also the whole XMP and EXPO I was mentioning other day, they OC the Voltage thats why the "warranty is void" on paper if you know what I'm talking about. So on Intel XMP = higher VCCIO/VCCSA and on AMD it's SoC voltage I guess. Lack of AMD documentation on the processor like Intel datasheet is also a small annoyance tbh to understand about each variable in the BIOS selection for these advanced high tech processors nowadays.
Silver5urfer - Tuesday, April 25, 2023 - link
Correction: Astron is the one with Dimple Dot design which is being revised, NTK is the superior Tulip design. CableMod uses NTK connectors.ballsystemlord - Tuesday, April 25, 2023 - link
People can send their CPUs, broken or not, to whomever they feel like. GN, for their part, have already helped in diagnosing several problems with HW so far. So, it's not like they're new to this sort of thing -- although I doubt that they have the tools necessary to root-cause this problem.DigitalFreak - Tuesday, April 25, 2023 - link
What’s with all the GN hate? You sound like a Linus stan.meacupla - Tuesday, April 25, 2023 - link
Honestly, this person is well known for going on weird and random, wall of text, rants that don't really make a whole lot of sense. It's best to just ignore everything they say.Samus - Wednesday, April 26, 2023 - link
^^^GN sensationalizes everything. We need engineering analysis not drama.
alpha754293 - Wednesday, April 26, 2023 - link
@Samus"GN sensationalizes everything. We need engineering analysis not drama."
You CLEARLY didn't watch the video about this issue from derBauer, where he EXPLICITLY mentions that GN has sent the sample that he received to a failure analysis lab.
Doesn't GET more "engineering" than this.
fonsui - Wednesday, April 26, 2023 - link
I wonder if anyone has reached out to see if they can be helped. Anyone going off like this, with these types of posts, certainly when it is consistent, probably needs help. Just look at all the emotion packed into that post - taking general technical issues personally, making claims about the efficacy of the work done by a very well-respected shop, etc. People who react this way ought to get kindness and understanding, but they end up either being ignored, or argued with in an very unhealthy way.heickelrrx - Wednesday, April 26, 2023 - link
I'd say that person really fortunate if someone want to bought your broken stuff at full pricenow you can switch to alternative product that isn't having Burning issue
Customer have no obligation to help AMD to Fix the issue
Silver5urfer - Thursday, April 27, 2023 - link
ASUS said full refund. AMD as well.zeroy - Wednesday, April 26, 2023 - link
Who pooped in your cornflakes dude? And FYI, users are totally free to O/C their CPU/Ram, whatever, that is what those High End Motherboards are for!philehidiot - Wednesday, April 26, 2023 - link
I can see this both ways. Sending to GN and having a third party failure analysis lab examine it without any manufacturer intervention eliminates vested interests and protect consumers from companies claiming it was user error. The other side to this is that AMD are far better placed to conduct and interpret such an analysis but, amusingly, they might prefer it going to GN.Why? Because if this really is a more widespread problem, they're going to get enough samples to figure out what needs defuckulation. And, if GN really do stay entirely objective, and this turns out to not be AMD's fault, it helps stop people accusing AMD of denying responsibility.
AMD might be in a stick situation. In my country, I would expect consumer law to say that XMP, etc is an advertised feature, that benchmarks are conducted with it on and that it's AMD's responsibility to ensure motherboard partners have the correct spec to not fry the chip. I'm not sure a "warranty void" warning holds up when you're selling the product based on those features being enabled. It's like saying a car can go 150mph but your warranty is void if you go above 70mph, and then advertising it as a suitable track car.
Zodwraith - Wednesday, April 26, 2023 - link
If I spent $600 on a motherboard and $450 on a chip to have it burn out cause I enabled expo f*ck AMD. I'd MUCH rather send it to GN for it's full value than AMD hoping they don't come back weeks later to say "tough shit, you enabled expo and we aren't warrantying it." Especially when AMD has MUCH more to gain from hiding the true cause if they discover it was their f*ckup.Your attempt to discredit Gamers Nexus just makes you look like an AMD apologist that doesn't want the body cam footage released after a police shooting. I know if I'd bought this overpriced line of CPUs I'd be FAR more interested in independent testing than AMD's when they'd benefit FAR more from hiding any failures than GN getting a few more views.
GN is taking a HUGE risk pissing off AMD by buying this chip in the search of truth and exactly why they're respected by the community.
Silver5urfer - Thursday, April 27, 2023 - link
What risk are they taking ? Like how they ate money from Nvidia on giving out how 12VHPWR Is exclusively user error, like Nvdia PR was only given to them not to all because Nvidia liked GN way and how that way they could not be stressed to give an official PR statements low visibility and less money involved and less accountability. Their adapters and solution was garbage. Fact of Intel 3.0 ATX revision cements it.AMD's QC botch up or not this situation does not make GN any saint or such. Esp the fact he ignored the LGA1700 socket failure of bending for months only to come out after the Thermalgrizzly's Contact Frame was out.
Questor - Sunday, May 14, 2023 - link
"Your attempt to discredit Gamers Nexus just makes you look like an AMD apologist that doesn't want the body cam footage released after a police shooting."Except that's a poor comparison. After whining about accountability and getting bodycams put on cops all over the place, deepening the taxpayer burden, the NAACP complained bodycams were an invasion of privacy when the overwhelming majority of footage vindicated police.
In this scenario, that would put AMD in the victim category and the consumer being the entity causing the infraction.
Also, Gamer's Nexus has no risk in this. That's just a silly statement to make. A person takes more risk crossing the street on a daily basis than Gamer's Nexus risks in this affair.
Arte - Thursday, April 27, 2023 - link
"I skipped Zen 3 because it rightfully had IODie instability once you touch DRAM OC past 3200MHz and the USB drop outs no AGESA could fix them. My guess is it's due to the 3 variable system on the Uclock, Memclock, Fclock.. Zen 4 fixed all of them by decoupling that links to 2 variables now."Could be a couple of years since i last visited Anandtech.
FF to 2023 and the "Silver FUDozer" still going strong, knowing it all.
Dude,
My 5700X rig ticks @ DDR4-4000 1:1 , for months now , with no issues whatsoever, especially at the USB.
And i would know, since -amongst other- i use USB BT devices, namely a mouse and a headset.
Silver5urfer - Thursday, April 27, 2023 - link
Anandtech article reported the USB failures, I go to OCN and see it always a thing for this reason alone OCN has WHEA Supressor made. Why would I have to lie about some X corporation and I do not care about your IMC ratio and it's irrelevant for an anecdotal take. As I've seen enough of these user complaints on OCN. Then the Videocardz comments for some of the users mentioning this, and a ton of reports on Reddit on brand new X570 series and other forums where I have knowns have reported issues on their own machines. The Zen 3 is a failure in terms of stability and UASP does not exist on that platform still. I did my research for my purchase as I do not want to fiddle around the BIOS with unknown non documented values for variables.And what I mentioned is accurate, Zen 4 does not have 3 links now. It's only 2 that IODie link is removed as a part of the change its only DRAM+ IMC and no FClock link anymore. If you do not know jacks just move on.
Silver5urfer - Thursday, April 27, 2023 - link
To add - The last page of this article comment has one user mentioning the USB failures on Zen 3 platform. It's garbage. End of story. AMD users should get Zen 4 if they want stability or wait for Zen 5, as Intel is garbage in LGA1700 bendgate fiasco and untameable heat.dwade123 - Tuesday, April 25, 2023 - link
They have deleted so many threads on Reddit to sweep it under the rug but now the news have blown up all over the web like their processors.Jonny_H - Tuesday, April 25, 2023 - link
Reddit posts are being deleted to "cover this up"? The same reddit where the hardware and amd subreddit frontpages are completely filled with this drama? The same reddit that is completely blowing this up with no actual new information and rephrasing speculation as "Confirmed Cause"? That reddit?meacupla - Tuesday, April 25, 2023 - link
Yup, that one.I suspect dwade is either a nvidia stan, or a chatgpt bot.
The Von Matrices - Wednesday, April 26, 2023 - link
And that's why you shouldn't ever use Reddit to post or obtain information. The ability for Reddit moderators to silently delete certain posts and therefore completely change the context of threads to support their opinions makes the site useless for gauging public sentiment. You can post something there, and then by silently deleting a select few posts above yours, the moderators can make it look like you support the exact opposite, and you can do nothing about it.zeroy - Wednesday, April 26, 2023 - link
Who? AMD? I doubt that.cmdrdredd - Wednesday, April 26, 2023 - link
My biggest concern is that apparently XMP and other similar tech from AMD that is advertised by memory vendors and motherboard manufacturers and even Intel/AMD themselves is a "warranty void" use case. I had never heard this before, nor did I hear anything about it being considered overclocking. That's news to me lolStuka87 - Wednesday, April 26, 2023 - link
Where did you hear this? I have never read/heard where AMD states that enabling XMP voids the warranty of their CPU.Joel Busch - Wednesday, April 26, 2023 - link
That's been the case for generations of memory. Anything that goes beyond JEDEC spec is overclocking.I agree that it's bullshit for the industry to advertise higher speeds and build supporting technology (XMP, EXPO) while disclaiming any responsibility though.
Kvaern1 - Wednesday, April 26, 2023 - link
It's bullshit. Both Intel and AMD knows it's not going to fly in any country which has civilized consumer rights.You don't get to "advertise" great things your product can do and then claim warranty void if your customers do it.
haukionkannel - Wednesday, April 26, 2023 - link
Of course they can. If they say that certain usage avoid varranty, it does so...That is why there are usage instructions.
If someone use car to dive to the lake... The warranty does not cover that. OC is always a risk customer takes, that does remove varranty. Normally it is not a big risk, but if something happens... well no help from company.
Kvaern1 - Thursday, April 27, 2023 - link
Are you American ? I wrote about countries which has civilized consumer rights.Questor - Sunday, May 14, 2023 - link
Does that come with "value added tax?"Questor - Sunday, May 14, 2023 - link
You know, those entitlement people. They think they should be able to do anything they want and someone else should be accountable to make it right.Chaser - Wednesday, April 26, 2023 - link
2 years ago I decided it was time to go AMD for my gaming rig. I bought a 5800X and an X570 Motherboard and was excited to take the plunge! That excitement turned to despair quickly. The problem: I'd be running Windows 10 or 11 and "click" my computer would instantly be at BIOS startup. As a troubleshooter, I was intrigued to find the cause for weeks. Desperately trying to find the cause of this I replaced my system RAM, PSU, and even motherboard. Because each manufacturer was convinced it was their device that was causing this problem! Nothing fixed it. I'm be browsing, gaming, anything and "click" BIOS startup. This went on for months because of my stubbornness and "I can't fix this ego". ALong with hardware I tried everything I possibly could in Windows 10 &11 to try and figure out the cause. Error logs, you name it. But nothing.Months pass and AMD released a bulletin stating "We are aware of a USB issue with the X570 series M/B." "We are now trying to recreate and isolate the problem and eventually issue a bios fix." Weeks later the fix came and the problem stopped.
But, after all the (wasted) time I personally spent with OEMs, on the phone with AMD, and in Windows, I had had enough. I parted out my M/B and CPU and went with INTEL Alder Lake and I went back to normal expectations. Now this debacle has made it past AMD's Q/A. Not good. No excuse.
Dr_b_ - Wednesday, May 3, 2023 - link
experienced the same thing and other things, causing me to spend $ and time troubleshooting, just went back to intel, dont really care at this point how much better AMD is, they don't understand QA and don't do it, apparently. On raptor lake now, and its rock solid.blackie333 - Wednesday, May 3, 2023 - link
I was quite surprised in the past with dramatic increase of VSoC related to faster XMP/EXPO profiles from the default 1.09V (4800MHz 38-38-38-80) to 1.20-1.30V (for 5200-6000 MHz) on my Asus B650E-F. Also related 50% idle power draw increase was high.I hope that the new AGESA changes will offer better tuned gradual SoC voltage steps required for higher memory frequencies and also some power management or dynamic VSoC decrease for idle mode.